piper cheyenne 400ls problems
I flew the 400LS for a spell. The other three Cheyenne models, the III, IIIA, and 400LS, dont really fit into the entry-level category. The Navajo airframe was fitted out with 620-shaft-horsepower Pratt & Whitney PT6A-28 engines, given a pair of 30 gallon wing-tip fuel tanks, and certified in May 1972. It explains the jet-like climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute at max takeoff weight, a cruise speed of 350 knots, and a service ceiling of FL410. There is Comfort Pilot and passenger comfort improved as the series was developed. This airplane is certified in the normal category. Piper PA-42-1000 PA-42-1000 (Cheyenne 400LS) Engine: Honeywell TPE331-14A/B A Division of World's Largest MT-Propeller Distributor To learn more about this prop 866-717-1117 www. Also, the IIs generally come equipped with far superior avionics, such as the King Gold Crown instead of the panel-mounted radios in the Cheyenne I. Although the undercarriage legs have been It carries more and further and does it all for about half the cost of a comparable bizjet. Their advice is dont do anything yet. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is uniquely positioned to adapt to our various missions in payload, distance and speed. The fuel system can be monitored through several gauges on the instrument panel through a dual needle type fuel quantity indicator, two fuel flow gauges, and two fuel pressure gauges. There is little or nothing to attribute to the PA-31T design in these accidents. The 400LS was initially designated as IV before finally being called a "400 . We have had a couple of engine problems, but discussions with our maintenance base, Des Moines Flying Center, have convinced us that all is well. The system met the letter of FAA certification requirements in terms of achieving stick-free longitudinal stability but it did nothing for, and possibly aggravated, long-period phugoid divergence (in something approaching English, if pitch input moves the aircraft away from its trim airspeed, it tends to accelerate quickly in that direction, then recover abruptly [pull up or push over] with the divergence increasing with each cycle). A true performer (Single Pilot) that resembles Jet Performace for half of the fuel burn and operational cost. Have you ever heard of a King Air with Garrets. Physical dimensions are the same as the PA-31T except that the basic airplane wingspan is two feet shorter (40 feet, 8 inches versus 42 feet, 8 inches) because in standard form it does not have tip tanks (although most purchasers opted for them). That engine runs a little hotter than before the hot section and burns a little more jet-A, but now it matches the left engine more closely. This is better than the Extra 300s 6.3 pounds/horsepower and the 7.3 pounds/horsepower of the spirited Beechcraft King Air F90. 0000004648 00000 n Ive never flown one and am not sure how I feel about taking a Malibu and bolting a PT6 on the front of an airframe designed for a 350 horsepower piston. There is a lot to recommend the single turboprops. There is one accident that occurred to a PA-31T under similar circumstances to the two that called the SAS into question: loss of control during an instrument departure in fog. In this condition, you could take off, climb to 29,000 ft, cruise at 250 KTAS or so, and have an IFR range of about 1,170 nautical miles and an endurance of 4 hours 30 minutes. The only barricade between me and accomplishment of such grown-up activities is the fact that I love our Cheyenne. The PIPER Cheyenne II, manufactured from 1974-1983, requires a 2 person crew and can transport up to 5 passengers. With the Cheyenne, on the other hand, we have had no downtime for maintenance whatsoever, except for the regular scheduled inspections. Record HolderWith its six-pound weight to horsepower ratio, well in excess of the Extra 300 competition acrobatic plane, General Chuck Yeager set the time to climb record in the 400LS in the mid-1980s. One 24 volt, 43 ampere hour air-cooled nickel-cadmium battery, located in the nose section furnished power for engine starting and also serves as a reserve source of emergency electrical power. In Kellys words: None of these planes should be running around without this modification.). A mock-up is. Thats a recipe for a bad accident rate. An angle-of-attack sensor is mounted on the nose, and is connected to a downspring. 181 0 obj <> endobj power setting above this will start sliding the tyres. 0000011922 00000 n As with the Cheyenne I, there is no stability augmentation system. Deliveries began in early 1974 - a long time Standard operating procedure A fleet of this size does not provide the manufacturer and maintenance shops enough incentives to produce parts and specialized maintenance support. Below FL 180, the aircraft tends to become more stable, but the phugoid instability is still obvious, and with each oscillation it becomes worse. It takes about four inches of yoke travel to keep the plane level at FL 270. 0000014026 00000 n But, what exactly was wrong with the original airplane? button. I remember reading a Richard Collins column years ago in which he described the number of yellow legal pads he used up while deciding on the Cessna P210 he ultimately bought and flew for 8,000 hours. Dick Karl is a cancer surgeon who appreciates the beauty and science involved in both surgery and flying. No surprises there. For an aging airplane, the Cheyennes have remarkably few major maintenance problems or airworthiness directives. My first instinct was to check the autopilot wasn't on. batteries are not fully charged or the aircraft is pointing downwind. In that same year, the interior was improved. They should be in maintenance costs, as well, so long as they are properly operated and maintained. The bobweight was made available as a retrofit to earlier PA-31Ts (The modification, called the Dynamic Stability Improvement Kit is covered by Service Letter 977. The 106in (2.7m) Dowty Rotol propellers had four round-tip composite blades and 8in (20cm) of ground clearance. 0000012730 00000 n Click here to view the Piper PA-31T Cheyenne features guide. Icing conditions existed. A lot of early buyers liked the high climb rate and comparatively good short field performance in addition to its high cruise speeds. the finished product this month. Both the II and IIXL can carry eight. Wonderful article, I have been looking, doing my homework on what aircraft I want to purchase. A friend and I seriously considered a Cheyenne a couple of years ago and I still think a Merlin would be a decent choice for what were doing. 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS airplane for sale located in San Jose, California. Fuel is carried in six tanks three interconnected tanks in each wing: a wet nacelle tank, and two bladder-type fuel cells. Corrosion of the airframe has been rare, thanks to Piper's use of extensive anti-corrosion treatments and epoxy primers. endstream endobj 268 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[6 175]/Length 29/Size 181/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream %PDF-1.2 % However, this doesnt mean it is simple. A number of companies also use the aircraft as part of fractional ownership programs. The company also makes what are called Speed Stacks, specially shaped exhaust stacks that are claimed to improve speed and reduce exhaust deposits on the aircraft. It isnt any different from any other sophisticated collection of systems and sometimes conflicting elements. HUMo@W19t]TYjP &1=HR HucfsO%pH/PKI-Ac@UMVpV" euht/V.:zM#5&&N3Degj\_4%:!8OPqbU:~077fa@" Y Browse a wide selection of new and used PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft for sale near you at Controller.com, the leading aircraft marketplace. The lower maximum power of the I together with a narrower cg range, climb power limits and the forward bias of loading equations in the IIXL because of the stretch forward of the leading edge as well as an aft cg limit that is also two inches forward of the limit in the original Cheyenne make longitudinal stability and pitch performance satisfactory without artificial aids. The value of our Cheyenne is almost down to the run out price, so the next year is essentially free. For both individual and corporate owners, the early Cheyennes make sense as step-up purchases, as long as the combination of low price, low maintenance, and high-performance remains in vogue. It true??? comes in. In 1980 the windshield area was increased by 20 percent for both the I and II. PAY4 Executive transport aircraft. Chevenne 400 Ls with 5 blade perpillers has 1000 h.p engines too. The available power of 620 SHP is too much for the configuration of the Cheyenne with loading toward the aft range. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is powered by two Honeywell TPE 331-14 engines with 1,000 shp each. In the case of the Meridian and the TBM, the airplanes are still in production, an important consideration when it comes to parts. The 17-foot high tail also makes finding a T-hangar at most GA airports a challenge. He writes about his enthusiasm for both the machines and the people who fly and maintain them. All rights reserved. The cabin is so well insulated, this 0000043582 00000 n general aviation may be immeasurably poorer. Magginetti mentions cabin heaters, torque indicating systems and the PA-31Ts SAS as systems that require higher than average attention. This was one of several attempts to overcome the poor image of Piper engineering and manufacture. As with any design, there are specific, recommended or even mandatory maintenance procedures. The Cheyenne IIXL (PA-31T2) was certified in 1981. A properly trained pilot will find it to be a very satisfactory airplane, except for the combustion heater problem. Even at that, parts are an issue for me. What are they going for these days? The most severe case was attributed to improper paint stripping. Many of the systems are not as well designed and organized as in later airplanes and because of the affects of age (not to mention abuse and neglect). The Cheyenne I, with 189 sales formed a solid niche but was no match for the IIs impressive sales record of 343 airplanes. executive turbine fraternity. 0000013168 00000 n He stuck to his word. In the meantime, look for a pair of low-time engines (either -11s, -28s or, improbably, -135As) that we might pick up at a great price. With the optional tip tanks installed, the fuel capacity is increased to 390 U.S. gallons. Insulation and trim was changed to increase finished interior dimensions. The plane must be flown within its loading envelope or there can be big trouble for the occupants. One reason for these problems may be that a pair of hurricanes smacked Piper's Vero Beach, Fla. plant in 2004 and destroyed or severely damaged 300,000 square feet of it. These introduce artificial pitch forces at the yoke to counteract PIO or over controlling tendencies. Its frightening because these are uncertain times for all of us and were talking a lot of money here. I would have had to maintain it, and I dont enjoy the thought of that. One of the most annoying characteristics of the Cheyenne is caused by the aileron/rudder interconnect. More comfortable. The turbine engines are so reliable that Ive the sense that, given my modest piloting skills, Id be safer in a single turbine than in a Baron. The Cheyennes are a relative bargain in both initial price and operating costs. It pays to experiment (but dont judge the affects just by the pilots reaction. legal hyenas and their pursuit of product liability claims. All rights reserved. I find this overhaul prospect both financially frightening and, in another sense, slightly ironic. 0000082142 00000 n Please contact Mike Shafer (315) 415-0401. The computer also determines stall margin, commands stall warning signals and provides input to a simple, cockpit mounted angle of attack indicator dubbed the stall margin indicator. Only three ADs apply specifically to the I and none to the IIXL, although most apply to all three. [3], The aircraft's top speed is 351kn (650km/h; 404mph) and was faster than the Citation I on most trips while burning one-third less fuel. The tradeoff was poor dynamic stability. AGREE! In Sum By the time the program ended, the Piper Cheyenne series offered good all-around performance, good use of interior space and competitive systems. Back in The potential danger is obvious. PA-42 may also refer to, "Piper Cheyenne 400LS: Big Dog Turboprop Could Best A Citation I", "Piper Cheyenne 400LS Record Set by Chuck Yeager", "Quick Look: Piper Cheyenne 400LS, Rare hot rod performs more like a jet", "Chuck Yeager - Chasing the Demons for 72 Years", "Piper PA-42 Type Certificate data sheet No. His insight on actual ownership cost would be insightful. The SAS would not have been necessary were it not for the Cheyennes poor static longitudinal stability. Powerplant | (2) 1,000-shp Honeywell TPE-331-14, Takeoff distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,325 ft, Landing distance over 50-ft obstacle | 2,317 ft. Get extra lift from AOPA. No one seems to be able to explain the reason. It outperformed all turboprops and even Cessna Citations of the day with 351 KTS at 25,000 feet (or 290 KTS at 41,000 feet) on 60 gallons of Jet A/hour, and a range of 1,800-plus nm with IFR reserve. 0000042281 00000 n The next month, the flood hit. maximum 30 percent power setting becomes apparent from reading the last page 0000093767 00000 n In December, the plant was shut. 0000013910 00000 n -n!Zf`Wb | 9jL+_.6b|*3CY>D{}cLtGc"N%%y,IgR?/Mp6e>oBN)RLsSp#fS-4[4TkH-%K]u*[44Y#n Dicks monthly Gear Up celebrates the human side of flying. The McCauley Accessory Division of Cessna offers a propeller conversion kit that-according to the company-reduces interior noise and improves performance. These airplanes are fast, efficient and beautiful. At altitude, you can pull the miserly Garrretts back to about 400 lbs (60 gallons) per hour for long-range cruise. And at 12,050 pounds MGTOW, it is approved for single-pilot operations without a type rating, although insurance companies require annual training. 0000094191 00000 n They can significantly reduce the cost of a hot section inspection or overhaul by reducing the effects of wear and tear on very expensive engine components. N7222F boasts RVSM approval, ADSB-In and Out, Garmin Active Traffic, weather radar, two G600s and two GTN750s completely integrated with the original jet-level Collins APS 65 Autopilot, bringing its automation to 21st century standards. We did a hot section on schedule on the right engine almost four years ago. The PA-31T3 is a hybrid of the Navajo Chieftain (unpressurized) fuselage with the flying surfaces and engines of the Cheyenne I. If a person wanted to do that in a Cheyenne II, he could simply self-limit the -28 engines to the 500-HP output of the -11. With a full fuel capacity of 3,825 pounds, a fuel load of 2,750 pounds allows an hour of IFR reserve accommodating 1,300 pounds of payload for this typical trip. At high angles of attack, the vane causes the spring to pull the controls forward, thus providing artificial static stability. The trick, as always, is to find the airplane that offers the most features for the money, fits typical mission requirements, and hits a prospective owners emotional hot buttons. Two 30 volt, 200 ampere, D.C. starter/generators in parallel provide torque for engine starting and generate D.C. electrical power. Theres no question that the Meridian is a lot smaller than our Cheyenne. 0000096310 00000 n bizjet. It tends to be tail-heavy. First flight of this proof-of-concept airplane occurred in the spring of 1967. The confusion started when Piper introduced a lower powered, lower cost turboprop and called it the Cheyenne I (PA-31T1). Only 24 -31T3 commuters were built in the roughly two year life span of the design. Environmental systems, including the cabin blower, heater and air conditioning, fuel systems-including fuel line chafing, landing gear and horizontal stabilizer/elevator were the elements causing the most frequent reports. the PA-42 - essentially a turboprop-powered Navajo. PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS condition is Used PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Flight Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total flight time is 6,465 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Engine Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total engine time is P51041 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Category PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS category is Turboprop Aircraft PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Pics The Cheyenne IIXL, manufactured from 1981 to 1984, is basically a Cheyenne II with a 2-foot stretch all of it forward of the main spar. Owner is Motivated and will entertain offers. Today, my wife and I are the proud owners of N7222F, a 1987 PA42-1000. Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. A standard Cheyenne I came without wing-tip fuel tanks, but they were available as an option, and almost everyone anted up. Or both. Electrical wiring, especially connectors and even some fuses, were a nightmare to troubleshoot because each one was a bit different and many junctions were in hard to reach parts of the airframe. Most are not repetitive. 0000042969 00000 n And the TBM? What would I like to improve? Photo date: 2022-04-23. One item that Piper should not have used was the Janitrol heater. 0000042546 00000 n In 1975, he acknowledged many shortcomings and promised major improvements would take place in quality control and customer support. Generally speaking, operators of the original version should make a dedicated commitment to good initial and recurrent training, rigorous pre-purchase inspection and evaluation and make sure they find a very qualified maintenance technician and shop. The oil is going out the breather tube, and the evidence is all over the underside of the right wing. Long-legged pilots are a bit jammed into the cockpit, especially in models with gussied-up interiors such as cabin dividers and refreshment centers which tend to impose on cockpit chair movement range most. You can get a pair with 1,500 hours remaining (that hes just taken off a II that was getting fitted with those big 135As) for $370,000. One of the most annoying features of the Cheyenne was the Janitrol combustion heater which, although thermostatically controlled, was either on or off. 0000052743 00000 n The Cheyenne IA, a slightly modified version of the Cheyenne I, came along in 1984. I was scared off by the low production number, the low number still flying, and the possibility of having the airplane grounded for long periods or even permanently. There were 82 -31T2s manufactured between 1981 and 1984 (although there are two listed as 1985 models, they were built the previous year). [3] The PA-42-1000 Cheyenne IV was certified in 1984, 44 were built until 1991 and 37 remain in service in 2018. It is powered by PT6A-11 engines rated at 500 SHP. Electrical power is supplied by a 28 volt, direct current, negative ground electrical system. 820 degrees C and it is necessary to have fingers poised over the fuel aberration must have given rise to the big Cheyennes. hb``e`R That is a fair description of the original Cheyenne. 0000093388 00000 n The majority of the Cheyenne 400LS aircraft were fitted with nine seats, including a potty seat that can be completely enclosed by an accordion door neatly hidden in its furniture cabinet. 0000014139 00000 n That problem is the phugoid stability. A total of 526 aircraft were built. of propeller clearance. mwP:5L6r+,I-$X2ijbj)Q]B3ZFTV_ e V'&xT$,lFR/oFN`rX\Kil! W7 }/T]ip'Dl~ All provide enough options to permit loading (or off-loading, as the case may be) to keep weight and balance within the limits. strengthened and lengthened, the props are huge paddle-blades with a 0000094113 00000 n The Cheyenne IA was introduced in 1983. Design work began in 1965 (the PA-31P pressurized Navajo was in development at the same time). This and other systems were rationalized with the 1978 model year. 0000012150 00000 n Maintenance Steve Magginetti is service coordinator for Corporate Air Technology of San Jose, Cal. They have trouble getting repair parts to keep those planes flying too. When I am not working, eating or sleeping, you can find me there. As you were browsing something about your browser made us think you were a bot. AM With its powerful Garrett TPE 331-14-801 turboprop powerplants and capable systems, Piper's Cheyenne 400LS operates quite comfortably at altitudes as high as 41,000 feet while achieving impressive speeds There is enough to manage in a Cheyenne even in good weather that it definitely is in the category of a check list airplane. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc&model=24E&listing_id=2394659&s-type=aircraft, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Piper's advertising blurb claims it is quieter than the Two engines being a must, I quickly honed in on two aircraft, both with the more efficient Garrett engines: the Cessna Conquest II with TPE331-10s, and the Cheyenne 400LS with TPE331-14s. This is where a wife (Cathy) with an MBA and an interest in equity, return on investment, residual value, hourly costs, etc. As with all turboprops, minor variations-as little as ten to twenty-five RPM-in RPM from normal cruise settings can work wonders in sound level, sound quality and vibration. On this particular aircraft, the most stable ILS approaches are flown at 140 knots, in order to keep the phugoid from becoming a problem. My wife tires a bit when I bring up the subject, but she knows that when Im staring out the window and she asks what Im thinking about, the answer is always the same: engines. Pete Bedell is a pilot for a major airline and co-owner of a Cessna 172 and Beechcraft Baron D55. Of course, you usually need both at the same time.
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